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Forum:State Of Disunion Address
Spartan-091 mounts the pedestal of the marble Master Chief statue at The Forum, raising his voice to be heard above the din. His gray-green armor reflecting dully in the bright sunlight that pours through the opening in The Fourm's dome, he addresses the public of HaloFanon: Friends, Wikians, Halopedians, lend me your ears! In the recent hours/days/weeks, it has come to my attention that there is a great deal of strife still lurking beneath the surface of this wiki, small subcurrents and eddies of darkness that pull at the edges of the peaceful union RelentlessRecusant and H*Bad established so many years ago. I was there at the time of creation, and saw what potential this site had to be amazing and good, worthy of notice from the Great Ones at Bungie. But to maintain this awesome potential, certain guidelines had to be established. Rules to keep new users on the straight and narrow path of canon-friendly fiction, which gives the site its name. These rules may seem stifling to some newer or more creative users, but in fact, they are the only things that hold this wikia together! The rules were established long ago, at the very foundation of this wikia's creation. They should be followed to the letter, and any that choose not to follow should be reprimanded at least three times before being taken out of play for a day, week, month, year, or forever. While freedom of thought is a noble cause, there are some things out there that should not be thought up. Godmodding, abusive language, uncontrollable anger, non-canon fiction, all is an abomination to the Great Ones at Bungie, and therefore should be an abomination to us as well! So what I propose is this: unite together all of the disjointed fractions that threaten to tear us apart! Strive together for a better wikia! Forget your petty quarrels with others and realize this site's potential! Realize your potential! We are better than this! We can rise above the ruins of The Civil War and prevent another such crisis from happening! But it all starts with you and me, the common digital citizens of this great and glorious realm! So who's with me? Who's for a better tommorrow? Who's for change? Stand firm, and unite, HaloFanon! WE CAN SUCCEED! Spartan-091 dismounts the pedastal and quietly leaves The Forum amidst the stunned silence of the crowd. H*bad jumps onto the pedestal to talk Well I would like to suggest though, if the community wants, I suggest that they have a vote to decide on whether or not to keep the current administration, including myself of coarse. I suggest multiple RFAs to vote on administration and perhaps vote out a few of them. Now this is just an idea, not my view, just to give something for the community to think about right now. I have points of change that I would like to point out for the community to also read. I put them on another wiki and I will bring them here if anyone wants them. Thanks, H*bad (talk) Subtank raises her hands for a quick question So, does this mean that the administration would undergone changes of admins/user every week/month? Wouldn't this type of process take a generally long period to get sort with? 17:19, 9 June 2008 (UTC) I am not saying that its official, its for the community to decide on the administration and if they want to keep it the same. Thanks, H*bad (talk) SPARTAN-077 raises his fist into the air I agree with 091! Rules must be upheld! Unruly users shall be put to death, errr, ban! -- The State(Our Decrees and Law)( ) 19:53, 9 June 2008 (UTC) Justanothergrunt aims his sniper-rifle from the clock tower at 91's head, pulling the trigger, the gub lurches and the shot misses, shooting the statue of masterchief, realising himself to be out of bullets, his gloved hands break up the gun, sticking it in a small brief case, before he sprints downstairs to join the mob, raising his fist into the air H*Bad, wouldn't mind taking a look at those "points" u mentioned. Omalley and I agree after the certain events there will be a enormous wikia civil war that will go on. And its inevitable. Several members are leaving the site because of these horrible decisions of the admins. And those members are allying themselves to create a new force to stop the previous one. I know the only hope for this Wikia is this decision, and so far the only admin I would keep is H*Bad the others are extremely fascist in my eyes. SPARTAN-089 22:03, 9 June 2008 (UTC) You say there will be a civil war. You are partially right. There wont be a civil war. There's been a civil war. It started before O'Malley and has continued slowly, ever churning the tides of war. Resolution will only occur when everyone can settle on the same idea. But as you can see, many disagree with the current happenings. I have chosen a side, but only a select few know which side I have chosen. In any case, I am prepared for the implosion of this site if things are not changed. --Kebath 'Holoree 23:16, 9 June 2008 (UTC) Struggling to come up to the front of the crowd, because of its vast expanse, 117649 Annihilative Repentance is ready to give a small speech. He eventually gives up trying to get to the front and simply grabs a box, stands on it, and raises his voice. I have been a member for Halo Fanon since it had about 500 or so articles. I've watched it grow, I've watched it endure through many times of strife, and though I might not have been around for those Dark Ages (the whole sockpuppeted accounts, fake admin affair, as clarificiation) I have helped the site along with small actions, as most of us inevitably have. Yes, O'malley did change his ways during his probation period; heck, he was friendlier than I am. However, the Administrators have reason for rebanning him from the site. In the U.S.A., the president cannot choose to take criminals out of Death Row without the consent of many other members of government. And what is the Halo Fanon Administration (HFA) but our site's noble government? If O'malley's friends choose to make their own site, they are fully allowed to. There may be, as many predict, another Civil War, or even an inter-site war, but as Spartan-091 boldly announced, we must strive to keep this Union whole. Without this site, many of us would not be friends; we probably wouldn't even know eachother. Civil War or Inter-Site War will most probably end in disaster for all its participants, and perhaps, maybe, the marring of this site beyond repair. HF is a place comraderie and creativity, not vulgar insults and user rivalry. All I ask is that we all stand together to make this site a better place, for the good of all of us (except the ones who are dead, as a shout out to all you Portal fans :P). Thank you for your time. Signed, 117649 Annihilative Repentance I agree with what 117649 AR has said. When I came to the wiki, there was about 90 articles. The thing is, even if we don't like some of the rules, they are there for a reason. Even if we don't like O'malley's rebanning, we did vote on the rules that three civility breaches, and you're out is what happens. What's happening now is a scapegoating of the admins. As AR has said, you can't simply pull a man from the death row, even if they were famous or a friend of the Head of State or something, nobody is above the law. --SPARTAN-G023 The Truth 02:44, 10 June 2008 (UTC) But you can pardon one though can't you? Thus meaning that you can pull someone out of death row. Thanks, H*bad (talk) *Hey, I just have a quick question for SPARTAN 089. What do you mean by fascist? I don't see myself as a radical right-wing extremist... In fact, since I have been absent from this site for a few months due to academics, I don't think that anyone can really make a judgement on my net philosophy. So, before you make judgement calls on admins, get to know them a little better. I feel I can speak for Roteratilbo and myself when I say that the rules are more important than our positions as admins. We strive to uphold those standards of common decency so that the site does not turn into an anarchical extremist environment with ultimate freedom to abuse or use others in any way you see fit. By the way, if you look at H*Bad's past, you can see that he' been just as power hungry as you accuse the other admins of being. At one point he tried to take credit as the sole founder (and therefore, sole bureaucrat) of this site. While I believe he has reformed his ways, you should know that everyone's the same! All humans have a base desire to enhance their power. I am not a fascist in my net policies. In fact, to avoid this, I summed up my philosophy right here. SPARTAN-091 |Admin| (HC)Guardian 12:41, 10 June 2008 (UTC) By the way 089, do you have a link to this new wiki? -- The State(Our Decrees and Law)( ) 14:03, 10 June 2008 (UTC) Are you guys serious? I've only been around for a little but I didn't know there was turbulence in this site. It looks like a friggen revolution is going to occur and an overthrow of the government. Is that really necessary? Here's my solution. No admins. --Beatmaster180 15:44, 10 June 2008 (UTC) Choose your next words carefully, Beatmaster, they may be your last as user. (I know, the 300-ness of that is stupid) -- The State(Our Decrees and Law)( ) 16:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC) So tell me, 089, what makes me a fascist? Was it that bit where you guys all agreed to a rule and then I was in favor of upholding that rule? Is that what makes me a fascist? Or was it that, rather than rebanning O'Malley on the spot, I spoke with the rest of the administration team about the matter to see how they felt about it? Is that what makes me a fascist? Or maybe it was that I then rebanned O'Malley because his unban was unjust? That's it, isn't it? No...none of those things are fascist in nature. So let's see, what is fascist in nature? What about unbanning a user on a whim without talking to the other admins about it? Is that fascist in nature? Or what about coming forward with site policy without talking to anyone about it beforehand? Is that fascist? Or perhaps deleting masses of NCF articles on a two-month old threat? Is that fascist? If you answered yes, then I have bad news for you, because the only one here carrying out those actions is H*bad. I'm not saying H*bad is a fascist. Far from it. My point is, if you are going to accuse someone on the admin team of being fascist, H*bad is the only one who has made actions anywhere close to fascism. And H*bad, yes, a person can be pulled off death row. But not on a whim. It is something that must be discussed and agreed upon. Yes, users can be unbanned. However, a single admin can't just say "you're unbanned". That isn't how it works. Also, Beatmaster, how is no admins a solution? Who would ban vandals? Registered users? So what would stop vandals from registering (as they often do) and just banning everyone else? Your anarchist solution makes no sense at all. :--'Master Gunnery Sergeant Hank J Wimbleton IVCOM' 20:29, 10 June 2008 (UTC) SPARTAN 119 mounts the pedestal, somewhat unsure whether he has the authority to stand in such a high position. What determines if a government is good or evil is how it uses it's authority, and how much authority it grants itself. Does it use it to the benefit or detriment of it's citizens? So far, in my opinion, all of the bans on of the admins seem to have a sound justification. Yes, even O'malley's. I am sure that the vast majority of Halo Fanon Users approve of the Civility rules. However, I would approve the concept of users electing and voting out admins, or something else to limit the power of the admins, because, as it has been stated, no one is above the rules. Shouldn't it apply to admins as well. Though the admins track record seems clean, barring a few contraversies, I do think more controls to prevent abuse of admin powers may be needed, as absolute power does corrupt absolutely, and the election of admins seems to be a good compromise between absolute power of admins and the radical option of anarchy proposed by Beastmaster. 119 steps down from the pedestal Justanothergrunt, after dumping his briefcase, pulls out a knife, and he slowly edges towards 91, as he nears the front of the crowd, he notices people now staring at him, quickly shoving the knife up his sleeve he waves, and stutters as he opens his mouth ...Anarchy sounds good, but mayb we just hav it so that all the users get a say on everything, say either they vote in admins that they think will do best for a said amount of time, or we just have an angry mob that runs everything thats made up of the "constant" users. Grabbing the same box as before, which is about ready to crack, 117649 Annihilative Repentance stands on it and speaks And alas, my fellows, though so many of us would wish peace and tranquility here, there are more extremists that are ready for war. My proposition is this; those who dislike the ways of our wonderful HF, you are free to leave and make your own domain if you wish. However, as an active member and veteran of this site, I will simply not tolerate any more fighting. Those of you that hate the system can go join the new site being made, those of us that remain Loyalists can strive to make this a better place. The box finally buckles under his weight, and 117649 Annihilative Repentance crashes onto the solid concrete floor, getting a concussion Signed, 117649 Annihilative Repentance 077 and several other users carry Repentance out of the Forum Agreed! Those that don't like it may leave, those that wish to make it better may stay!!! -- The State(Our Decrees and Law)( ) 23:05, 10 June 2008 (UTC) Spartan-091 decks Justanothergrunt, removes all of the obvious and unobvious weapons from his person, and helps the bumbling assasin to his feet. Perhaps we should institute a "vote for your admins" system, but we'd still have to leave a core team of about 1-2 bureuacrats and 1-2 sysops to keep things sane while the change occurs. So, it would have an effect, but not the effect that you extremists might want. As 077 said, if you don't like the site, leave and make your own. No one is forcing you to remain under "fascism", as 089 put it. So, if you feel oppressed, and don't feel like making a workable compromise, don't flame the people in power, leave. --SPARTAN-091 |Admin| (HC)Guardian 01:09, 11 June 2008 (UTC) Pardon me sir, but it was Annihlative Repentance's idea for leaving the site if you don't like it. :) -- The State(Our Decrees and Law)( ) 03:55, 11 June 2008 (UTC) Here are my points of change if you want to look at them: *RFAs for any more administrators *Administrators change their administrator name to be more community friendly **These means that they have to change Bureaucrat to a new name, Sysop to a new name, etc. And we don't call Admins, admins. We call them like Community members. *Unbanning must be dealt with by the community. *No more secret meetings from the administrators unless they want to get onto like XBL to talk or whatever. **You may still have meetings or whatever, but nothing over changing the policies or adding anything unless you will tell the community to talk about it. **The community must be able to vote for any more policies and policies can be revoted on if there is a good argument brought up against them. *A confidence RFA for all existing administrators so that we can see whether or not if the community still wants the current team. Admins may not vote in this or give their opinion. The community must decide for itself. Thanks, H*bad (talk) Subtank walk in front of H'Bad and gave a hug I think that's a great idea. I hope this would sort all the problems we're facing.. - H107SubtleTankCartographer 05:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC) Justanothergrunt brushes the dirt off his trenchcoat, and looks at the mass of weapons 91's "confiscated", and crouches down, head in hands, before jumping back up and trying to join the group hug occuring in the crowd, before being quickly pushed out, and feeling the back of his neck trampled upon, he rolls back towards 91, getting up he raises his voice I agree! (My roflcopta goes SOISOISOI) I thought this Forum was supposed to be centered on 091's address, not making our own addresses! -- The State(Our Decrees and Law)( ) 13:49, 11 June 2008 (UTC) Alright, so basically, H*bad, you want us to have to RfA before electing admin, change our name for no apparent reason (admins would still be admin, whether we call them bureaucrats or fluffly bunnies), unbanning to be dealt with in a popularity contest fashion rather than with any shred of objectivity, the banning of admins talking together about policy, which is normally how we polish good ideas before presenting them to the community, and finally, a subtle DrFA of all of t he current admin team? :--'Master Gunnery Sergeant Hank J Wimbleton IVCOM' 14:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC) Walks away from H*bad and went to Rotaretilbo, cowering behind him I'm guessing I didn't say it right. I agree on the RfA thingy only... - H107SubtleTankCartographer 14:38, 11 June 2008 (UTC) Basically you just blew everything out of proportion of what i just said. Allow me to fix what you mean to say. Look if we continue to call ourselves admins then new users will automatically assume that we are the "rulers" of Halo Fanon (which we aren't and I know you know that so don't say that we aren't...yeah) All users when voting will have to give a good informative(like I mean a paragraph(5-10) sentences on why we should unban this user). These paragraphs must be different from each other for each user who votes. Making it strict like this will mean more objectivity. Then to change up my point about admins talking together, you may do so but you had better make sure the community talks about it. If an admin decides to put up an idea, the other admins may not just go off and say: "You should of talked to us first!!! WHY DID YOU NOT DO THAT??" Which is not exactly what you guys say, but remember we are a part of the community and we can do that, so long as we have an unbiased tone of coarse. And yes we need a confidence vote for the current staff of admins. If the community feels that we need different ones then so be it. Remember we are admins to help the community grow, not the rule it. If the community dwindles down, then its our fault, myself included. Thanks, H*bad (talk) We are not here to help the community grow, H*bad. We are here to protect the community, keep the integrity of this wikia secure, and generally maintain the wikia. The community's job is to help the community grow. People who assume that the admins are rulers can be corrected. Changing the name makes no sense, because it will still be some sort of title that other people don't have, whether or not we call them admins. And disallowing the admins from holding "secret meetings" as you called them, is absurd. We are a team of admin. We need to act like a team. We need to discuss policy first to work out any apparent bugs and to ensure that the policy is in the best interest of the community. For example, your freedom of thought policy that you came out with completely randomly in an attempt to undermine the very integrity of the site. That certainly wasn't in the best interest of the community, and though initially they mostly voted in favor, once the admins discussed it (in public) and pointed out the apparent flaws, your policy was crushed in a two to one fashion. We could have avoided all of that arguing and disunity if you had simply brought it to the team first. Or is disunity and division what you are after? :--'Master Gunnery Sergeant Hank J Wimbleton IVCOM' 14:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC) H*bad reads Rot's paragraph Huh, interesting. Well anyways if we decided to have a confidence vote I believe that the confidence in all of the Admins will go up. I am not expecting to have a change, though I will welcome it with open arms. Oh and Rot allow me to bring up all of the things that I have done wrong for you: I am a recovering vandal, I have brought up a few things I wish I hadn't, I have done the freedom of thought thing which actually was in the mind for the community because I was seeing how they felt towards the canonocity idea. Now that its taken care of... Anyways, I am still going for all of my points above. I believe truly that the admins have said enough and need the community to decide, the community meaning minus the admins. Oh which btw I have asked a bunch of people and they all agree that the admins are apart of the community. We are also responsible to them to show them a good example. Thanks, H*bad (talk) Actually, this RFA idea, from what I understand of some logs a good comrade sent me, its not a RFA vote of confidence for everyone, its a vote of confidence for everyone, par HBad, or evne a vote of Confidence of admins the admins he doesn't like/agree with. This kind fellow will remain anoymous for the course of this transcript. Do you feel that it would be best if there was a RFA for the current admin staff? Rather a confidence vote for the current staff of admins... An RfA for current admins....who would decide who passes? -.- You realise there's gonna be support and opposition on both sides? Yeah exactly Well for the answer to your first question: We shall have a rule set for how many votes in the deadmin or keep admin sections. So there's no point to that -.- Yes there is. Well, to be fair, idc what happens there so I'm not commenting How about this! I kill off the other admins?? lol If you can, i don't see why not lol So you wouldn't mind it if I just suddenly slit RRs throat? Give me his brain first I need the knowledge =\ Yeah seriously.... Although I can win this argument RR style...Use BIG words! :P Yeah anyway, Idc about HF Well if I killed off RR and DragonClaws then would you care? Epic lulz Here's a better idea. Make everyone an admin. That allows for a pretty good system of checks and balances. --Beatmaster180 19:54, 11 June 2008 (UTC) Uhhh, no, that just wouldn't work. -- The State(Our Decrees and Law)( ) 20:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC) Ajax: That was a joke I was making. Just something to lighten up the mood. So Halo Dude gave you the logs eh? Yeah I said his name. :P Thanks, H*bad (talk) Beatmaster, no offence, but making everyone an admin is just plain stupid. If we made everyone into a member of the House of Commons, Legaslative Assembly, or Senate, then who would we govern? The government isn't a government if there is nobody to govern. If everyone was an admin, then what use would it be to have admins? People could ban other users simply because they got into a spat with them, they could delete other people's articles out of jealousy or hate, the entire site would be messed up beyond belief, not to mention Wikia Staff who wold have to go through the painstaking process of removing everyone's adminship. --SPARTAN-G023 The Truth 01:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC) Wow no one can take a joke around here.... jeez.--Beatmaster180 05:01, 12 June 2008 (UTC) Hey people i've read the main bit at the begining but i've had computer problems recently so my activeness is very low. I'll be active this weekend but i'm doing all of my work at school. So could someone be so kind to overview what has happened so far becuase it seems like a serious issue and i like serious issues >:) Thanks Do. Not. Ask. Yeah, I'm not exactly thrilled, but we have made similar jokes ourselves. --Dragonclaws(talk) 16:39, 12 June 2008 (UTC) 117649 Annihilative Repentance walks back into the forum dazedly, still recovering from his brain surgery I would simply like to state that my solution makes sense. Those extremists that won't go anywhere with concilatory gestures, by all means, you are welcome to leave. Those HF Loyalists that are willing to help the site prosper, help us all. AR raises his fist, and the crowd cheers, before AR is tazered and dragged back into the operating room --117649AnnihilativeRepentance 02:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC) H*bad puts away tazer Don't get me wrong I want the site to proper, but I also want to make sure that our foundation is secure, if its not then this happens. H*bad shows everyone pictures of nuclear disasters. Okay maybe not that, but realize this, if the foundation is messed up, then the entire thing comes crashing down. Thanks, H*bad (talk) Do tell, H*bad, how refusing to communicate with the admin team and taking action without talking about it is not contradictory to claiming to want a strong foundation? :--'Master Gunnery Sergeant Hank J Wimbleton IVCOM' 05:10, 13 June 2008 (UTC) Sure of coarse I will thanks for asking! :) Pulls up board with other questions on it *(Rots long question) **Ah yes correct. But let me ask you this, does anyone else in the community have to go to the admins to ask for something? Why must it be any different for an admin since we all in the community correct? The only thing that the admin is just someone with a couple extra buttons. *Why is it that I can't keep my mouth shut? **Because someone needs to speak up for the community if nobody else does. *Is Master Chief a gir-..err..Why is it that you keep posting in this thread? **I dunno I guess because they keep asking me questions... Thanks, H*bad (talk) So what do you propose we do to sort this site out. I'm getting pretty fed up myself with the site's bitching immature insulting from some users and all i want to do is make fanon peacefully. So what do we do? Ban anyone who opposes the Loyalists? Be a hardcore dictatorship and order people to get others into line? This site is messed up and i'd hate to see it go. Why is it so hard just to get along? Now wait a second I just read a bit of Spartan-091's paragraph about how I wanted to be sole founder. That's a lie! That was RR that wanted to be Sole B-crat. In fact you can ask Sannse if you want to because I was going through this discussion, of which RR still doesn't admit that I was a co-founder....Gah. Stop feeding them lies like that. Thanks, H*bad (talk) Parkster, we don't want to ban everyone opposed to the "Loyalists". I don't particularly enjoy banning anyone. O'Malley repeatedly broke a rule that the community voted in favor of, and was banned. That's how the community wanted it to work. H*bad, other people don't have to go to the admins because other people don't speak for the admins. Like I have said in the past, you speak for the admins, whether you think so or not. What you say sounds official, and as has often been the case, when you or any other admin holds a poll, especially if they use lots of flowery words and the like, people will vote yes because an admin is putting it forward, so it is assumed that all the admins are already on board. That is why it is so important for us to all talk about policy before we come forward with it. I wish people would all read the policy and think hard and long first, but not all of them do, because admins are trusted with extra responsibilities, so they should be trusted to have thought their idea through all the way, refined it with others, admin or not admin, and to present their policy with some shred of objectivity. Oh, and I think your tif with Jared can be solved with a simple quote from late last year. "I almost had that power, but decided to be nice and asked RR to be my co-founder." :--'Master Gunnery Sergeant Hank J Wimbleton IVCOM' 18:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC) Have you ever heard of sarcasm? I guess not since you aren't really that smart. And because of my lost of faith in the current dictators of admins, I will post this here: Thanks, H*bad (talk) Interesting symbol...-- The State(Our Decrees and Law)( ) 22:13, 13 June 2008 (UTC) Just for those who don't already know, the things admins should not do: Administrators should not use their administrator powers to settle editing disputes; for example, to lock a page on a version he or she prefers in an editing dispute that isn't vandalism. Administrator powers should be used to help keep the wiki clear of vandalism, spam, and users who make malicious edits, but not for simple disagreements between users acting in good faith. Ideally an admin shouldn't be considered "in charge". The ideal admin is just someone who is trusted to have a few extra buttons and to use them for the benefit of the Wikia community. Kebath 'Holoree LOMI forces his way through the crowd and stands to face the people, picking up his megaphone....... So, some of you believe we should have anarchy here? I stand to say that little good would come of it. Oh sure, go ahead and try it; you'll all be sorry you did afterwards. Rot, I believe that you need to back away from this site for a time. With all of this you've been becoming increasingly hostile and are pointing fingers at everyone else, saying, in essence, that they're doing the thing you've been accused off. Couldn't you try to be above the influence? And I point out, that though some should be pulled off death row, you have to be careful and have a good enough reason. If you unbanned on a whim, then everyone else would begin to ask to be unbanned (if they cared). As for the saying "absolute power corrupts absolutely", I was hoping to avoid it, even if it's true. But yes, I agree with H*Bad's suggestion for admin RfA's; it sounds quite good to me. "We are not here to help the community grow, H*bad. We are here to protect the community, keep the integrity of this wikia secure, and generally maintain the wikia. The community's job is to help the community grow. People who assume that the admins are rulers can be corrected." I'm going to point out that you just contradicted yourself from one sentence to the next. First you said that you weren't here to help the community grow, that was the community's job, but then you say you're part of the community. Rot, I seriously need to ask you to figure out what you beleive and stick to it. Beatmaster, I'd like to ask that you think about what you're saying before you speak. Both your ideas so far made no sense at all. And no, I don't care if you were "joking". And once more, Rot, H*Bad, stop bickering! You're getting really annoying. And please, can you guys please stop referring to "Loyalists" and "Civil War". It's good for joke articles, but not real life. The last thing I want to quote "On and on the old war shall go, Without respite my blood will flow, O’er your eyes ‘til they cannot see, The impossibility of victory." Now excuse me, but I have to check on the WIA members. LOMI walks over to check AR and Grunty. --MCPO James DavisLOMI HQI hear your cries 00:00, 14 June 2008 (UTC) Yeah I would suggest this forum protected...perhaps deleted if you feel like it. Lets just push this forum away and never bring it back up. Thanks, H*bad (talk) First i'd really like to know what that symbol means....:P-- The State(Our Decrees and Law)( ) 04:31, 14 June 2008 (UTC) For the record LOMI, what I meant in that quote was that the admin's special job is to protect the community, whereas it is everyone's job to grow the community. The admins should not ignore their special job to try and maintain their general job. Basically, people threatening to leave shouldn't sway our decisions when it comes to policy. It does, I will admit, but it shouldn't. :--'Master Gunnery Sergeant Hank J Wimbleton IVCOM' 04:35, 14 June 2008 (UTC) Demakhis walks in, everyone stares at him What you all looking at, i came back didn't I. --SPARTAN-064,Demakhis, Be Glad I'm Talking to You 04:55, 16 July 2008 (UTC)